The Call That Triggers Fear

Robert Ginyard 0:00

Once I heard that news, I automatically thought about death. I I thought about, okay, who's gonna handle my body and you know, when I die and and what's gonna happen to my family. I just went to that dark place and I kind of s stood there for a while after I put down the phone. And I remember I was standing up and I'm looking down at the phone as I laid it down on the uh headset, and I just could not believe the conversation that I'd just finished having.

Grantley Martelly 0:39

This is the Real Health Black Men podcast, where we empower men to take control of your health. We provide vital information and build community support. So join us as we discuss everything from major health challenges to mental wellness and physical fitness. So if you're ready to level up your health and your life, you're in the right place. Let's get started.

Meet Robert Ginyard And The Mission

Grantley Martelly 1:01

We do this podcast because men really need to know. Today, my guest is Robert Ginyard, a nationally recognized health advocate, a speaker, entrepreneur, media personality who's dedicated to improving health outcomes and education, advocacy, and intentional living. Robert was featured recently on Cancer Today magazine as a prostate cancer survivor where he tells a story. He's also the former chairman of board of directors for Zero Prostate Cancer and continues to serve on several boards, including Johns Hopkins' SKSCCC External Advisory Board. Robert has even testified before the U.S. Senate Appropriations Committee to ensure that we have enough money for cancer research. Robert is also the creator of Dream It, Build It, Do It, Be It, Dibby Dibby. And we're going to talk about all of those things today. So I'm excited to have Robert as our guest. We're going to talk about his life as a cancer survivor and the things that he's doing now with purpose and intentionality. So welcome, Robert.

Robert Ginyard 2:07

Grantley, thank you so much for having me, and thank you for that wonderful introduction. I was chuckling a little bit here, Grantley, because I remember we were sitting in some board meetings maybe a year or two ago, and I remember you talking about your podcast and what you wanted to do, and you wanted to be sure to offer men another outlet to get information out to them. And so I'm just so glad to see the podcast evolving and you're doing your thing. And again, thank you for having me as a guest.

Grantley Martelly 2:36

Well, thank you for being my guest. You're a very busy man, and and yeah, it has been a journey, and I'm learning so much doing this podcast. I learn I learn something new every month. So um so let's begin as we begin today. We're gonna basically divide our discussion into three parts your your life before cancer, your cancer experience, and then the things that you're doing afterwards. So, Robert, just tell us a little bit about what you did before and how how would how leading up to your cancer diagnosis?

Stress, Work Identity, And Risk

Robert Ginyard 3:10

Sure. Well, uh I I'll tell you, before cancer, uh I had been a very successful real estate agent and um, you know, did very well, Grantley, and I thought life was basically on cruise control. And, you know, of course, in 2000, 2007, 2008, the real estate market crashed, and that really took a toll on me, Grantley, mentally, physically, because I I took so much pride in the work that I did for my clients. And just to have the market crashed and my lifestyle and income and everything else drop, it was a lot of pressure. And and grantly, I had uh two, two young girls at the time. And so I my my being was so tied up into that career at the time. And grantly, I was making my way through that period, and then two years later, I want to say 2010, the diagnosis came from my doctor that my PSA levels were increasing. And he sent me to a urologist, and sure enough, Grantley, they uh concluded that I did the test results, uh indicated that I did have prostate cancer. And if I can back up just a second, Grantley, in a lot of my talking uh, I really talked to men about stress and some of the things that we put on ourselves. And I know we're we're gonna talk about this a little later, but the amount of stress that I was under, I think really accelerated my predisposition to prostate cancer because it is in my family, doesn't run in my family. And so I think with everything that I had going on there, the stress really activated, if you will, those things that, again, I that I had a predisposition to. And so in 2010, I elected to have surgery and then followed that up with radiation treatment and hormone treatment.

Grantley Martelly 5:09

Yeah, thank you for that great introduction to your story. And I latched on to the fact you said it was prostate cancer was in your family and stress, because for me, prostate cancer is also in my family. Both of my older brothers had prostate cancer. And uh, I really didn't pay much attention to it either at that time. And I didn't, I didn't realize how much stress played an important part in it, either words. And, you know, so I'm learning all of these things afterwards. I didn't even pay attention to how much stress was in my life. I think I got accustomed to living with stress, if if it's possible to do that. Yes. And uh so, but now I'm learning, you know, that I went back and I started reading about that, and I'm like, man, you if you'd if if if anybody hasn't listened to my first episode of this podcast, the first episode is the title, I Wasn't Paying Attention.

Robert Ginyard 6:02

Yes. And and you know, Grantley, because we're we're we're basically on cruise control, and you know, those things that we think we have under control, you know, when you start to peel back the layers a little bit, you know, we find that there's some other things that we had running in the background that were playing a part in our health diagnosis. So yeah, I I I'm with you. We weren't paying attention.

Grantley Martelly 6:25

Yeah, you know, like we're like on cruise control. And I think also, you know, Robert, the society we live in, you know, gets us accustomed to living under a certain amount of stress. And we feel as though if we don't, if we're not living under this amount of stress, we're doing this, going here again and this, again and that, getting better, getting promoted, you know, this and that, that we're not being productive. Exactly. Exactly.

Robert Ginyard 6:50

I think that was me. And that's what we get programmed that the busier you are, and you know, the fast life, that equals productivity, and a lot of people translate that into uh accumulating wealth and riches. And again, it it takes a diagnosis. And in our case, grantly it was prostate cancer, but for many others, it's just the stress from day-to-day life that may take form of mental health issues, uh, all other types of cancers and ailments. And so I'm I'm really, really um trying to tell a story about stress and how it affects the body. And and again, we'll probably talk about this later on, but you'll get into that. Yeah, we we that that's a deep topic that a lot of men don't deal with.

Grantley Martelly 7:39

Yeah, it just for us it's just normal. Yes. So so you went to the doctor and you got this diagnosis that you have high PSA and you go to urologist, you go through all the tests, and and you hear the words that you have prostate cancer.

Hearing Prostate Cancer And Hiding It

Grantley Martelly 7:56

Um do you remember that moment? And you remember what went through your mind or this stands out?

Robert Ginyard 8:04

Yes. It's it stands out, Grantley, and I got one for you. Well, uh, and first I'm gonna back up just a little bit that what was extremely important in my case is that I had a primary care physician who uh I've had for 20-something years. And so we had a relationship, he knew my body, he knew my family, and you know, just about all of my health history. And so prior to my diagnosis, Grantley, the doctor mentioned that, hey, I've been checking your blood and your PSA, and uh I do see the PSA starting to elevate. However, we'll monitor it for uh a little bit, but then it got to a point, Grantley, where he says, I still don't like what I see. And then he referred me to uh a urologist, and of course we got the biopsy done. But but here's the the thing that I remember. You asked them about what did I remember most about hearing those three words. And the urologist that called me that morning, he says, I hate to give you this news on a Monday morning. And it all went downhill from there, that point, Grantley. I'm like, why would you even why would you call me and and tell me that that's what's going on on a Monday morning? So he really opened up the conversation and uh that really took it downhill for me.

Grantley Martelly 9:27

Yeah, so it's the delivery is important as well. But I want to go back to one thing you said. You said you'd been seeing your doctor for a number of years, and he was able to monitor you and see what was going on. And this podcast exists, it's to encourage men to go see their doctor because many men don't go. But you're saying that the benefit of going was that you had a a baseline and you had a history so the doctor could see what was going on in your body. Exactly.

Robert Ginyard 9:58

And that's it also gets back to the point of having a team, a health team, Grantley, because you know, maybe sometimes we just have a primary care physician if we have that. But then having a primary care physician, a podiatrist, uh a weight technician, um, you know, uh a dentist, all of those things I think are important to your health team. And I think, of course, as we get a little older and wiser, we understand the importance of having that type of team. And so when men tell me that they don't have a primary care physician, Grantley, you know, I'm I I I get a little worried because particularly if they get a diagnosis of prostate cancer, you know, they go straight from getting those results into oncology in some form or fashion. So they don't decision, yeah. Yeah, they don't have the the benefit of that primary care physician that was able to monitor them over a period of time. They go straight into the treatment of cancer. And so I think it deprives them of having some kind of background and knowledge just about general health. And uh so it again, it forces them into a new level of learning about this particular field.

Grantley Martelly 11:12

Right, which in some ways is a new crisis, right? A new level of stress. Exactly. It's like learning another language. You went from no news to tough news, exactly and now have to make a decision. Right. So let's look, let's look at your journey. So you get this news on a Monday morning. On a Monday lives there on the Monday morning. Well, to be honest with you, I don't know if it would have been better on a Tuesday or Wednesday.

Robert Ginyard 11:37

But Greg, I think I would have preferred it on a Tuesday. But you know, you have enough to do on a Monday, but but to open it up, I hate to give you this bad news on a Monday.

Grantley Martelly 11:48

Monday. Yeah. You know, that that's interesting that he would be getting it that way. Yeah. So you you get this news, and I assume that your day changed. So tell us a little bit about how you went from hearing you have prostate cancer then to decide what kind of treatment that you were going to undergo if you had any choices there and the process of getting getting to that point.

Robert Ginyard 12:13

Well, Grantley, I gotta tell you, once I heard that news, I automatically thought about death. I I thought about, okay, who's gonna handle my body and you know, when I die and and what's gonna happen to my family. And, you know, I I just went to that dark place. And I kind of stood there for a while after I put down the phone. And I remember I was standing up and I'm I'm looking down at the phone as I laid it down on the uh headset, and I just could not believe the conversation that I'd just finished having. And so I uh I retreated into this mental shell where I was trying to figure out how I would tell my wife. And for, I gotta tell you, for about four or five hours, I was trying to figure out how can I handle this without scaring her. And so I'm thinking, okay, so I I know I'm gonna have to get this treated. How am I gonna do this without her worrying? And then, you know, my kids were very young at the time, but I'm thinking, how do we keep this concealed? I didn't want my mom to know. Uh, so I'm I'm thinking all of this concealment, how do I navigate that? And uh it got to a point where I I told my wife, we sat down on the bed and and I told her what was going on. And I could see the worry on my wife's face initially, but then being the wonderful wife that she is, I could see it in her face, her gears switched, where I was worried. She was like, okay, so what do we do next? You know, and she's plotting out, you know, what the next steps will be. You know, are you gonna get a second opinion? Who do we go to? Start asking around. And so she was very instrumental in helping me do that mental shift from diagnosis to now, how do I get this treated? And so uh much credit to my wife. I always give her credit for this. She was that rock that kept me from falling off the deep end.

Building A Health Team And Options

Grantley Martelly 14:33

Yeah, it's good to have good a good support system. Yes. Beginning with your spouse and your children.

Robert Ginyard 14:39

I was gonna say, Grantley, and so you the the other part of the question you asked me about treatment and so again, with my wife now on board, then I was able to start to look at the different treatment options that were available. Uh uh the the treatment that I chose was the radical prostatectomy. And again, when I'm on these platforms, uh I I'm simply uh stating my experience and my treatment, and you know this, Grantley, one uh treatment does not fit all. So again, I had a radical prostatectomy, and then that was followed up with the hormone and and uh treatment and radiation treatment as well. One of the things that stuck out with me, Grantley, is that as I was doing my research, I was trying to gather information about particularly how black men fared with the different treatment options that were out there. And I wasn't able to find that reservoir of information as to how black men what were the results of being treated in these with these certain treatments. And so that intrigued me that I said, you know, they need to do better, or or I need to find this information to help other black men make decisions about how they uh choose to be treated. That kind of led into a little bit more of uh how I wanted to do my advocacy in terms of giving men a decision or decisions to say, hey, look, I can go this route, this route, this works, and these are the percentages, and these are the success rates. You know, I I I always say I followed three the three D's. It's diagnosis, then you look at the data, and then you make a decision. And that way you you can go through a methodical step to say, okay, um, I've done my research and now I'm ready to move forward because uh there's so much information out there, currently, that you know, you start going on the internet and then you look at one story here, another there, and and then all of this back and forth, and then at some point you really have to make the decision. And so again, those that that three 3D uh formula helped me.

Grantley Martelly 16:52

Yeah, so that that's good. That 3D formula, I think we we should know it. That I I wanna I want to go back to two things you said earlier. You you said you went into a time of concealment, you know, and I wanna I wanna delve into that a little bit. Wha how why why do you think concealment was appropriate there? And then the other thing about looking at how black men fared in this thing. Because those two themes seem to come up a lot when we're talking to men about their health. Yes. So why do you think why did you go to concealment after you got this news?

Robert Ginyard 18:01

Well, that you know that and when I started to peel back the onions on uh the layers of the onion on that, Grantley, I was simply doing the same thing that my father and other men do when they get it some type of diagnosis like this, they think I can't tell my family because I the and this is the operative word. I don't want them worrying. Worrying about me. Yes. And so that's what led to the concealment. I didn't want people worrying about me. Now again, I I knew I couldn't do that for long. For a long time, yeah. Oh my gosh, my my wife, she would get it out of me one way or another. Uh and when I look back at it, Grantley, my dad had a bout of prostate cancer. He eventually died from lung cancer, but my dad, when he was diagnosed with prostate cancer many, many years ago, he asked my mom not to tell the kids because he didn't want us worrying about it. And so it it's a cycle that part of my life's mission now is to make sure we break those cycles so that we share our family history in terms of health outcomes, um, things that we may have a or diseases we may have a predisposition to. You know, those are the things that we need to share pre-obituary. You know, a lot of times after someone passes on, you know, oh, you know, you're at at the service, and there may be some conversation that comes up and you, oh, well, you know, he passed away from such and such. And you're like, well, I didn't know he had that. And and so, oh, his father had it, his father and his brother. So you start hearing all of this, and you're like, wait a minute, nobody was talking to one another. And so uh that that that's really part of my life's work now is to make sure that we know what's in our bloodline.

Grantley Martelly 19:55

Yeah, so there's two things there that passing on the history so people know. And then part of the concealment is is we don't want people to worry about us and not realizing that the people that we're concealing it from are the people who become, will become our support system. Yes, exactly. So even even though we don't tell them, eventually it's gonna come out and they're gonna be the ones who have to take care of us. So, you know, so so we're trying not to get them to worry about us, but we're not thinking about the effect that it has on them as we're trying to recover. So I just wanted us to talk about that a little bit because I know men, many men struggle with I don't want them to worry about me, so I'm not gonna tell them. But fellas, we want you to remember that the reason you tell them is first of all so that they know your history, but also that they're the ones who are gonna be taking care of you.

Robert Ginyard 20:50

Yes, indeed. And and our silence is really what cares, what kills us. Yeah, our silence will kill us. Yes.

Grantley Martelly 20:57

The interesting thing you talk about black men fearing in treatment, and and we can get a bit get into that too. But one of the things that I didn't know when I first got diagnosed myself was the, you know, some of the disparities of prostate cancer in the black community compared to the white community or the or the population at large. So I was now learning this at the same time I was learning about having to make a decision, like you said, the diagnosis, the data, and the makeup decision. I was learning about my process at the same time learning that I was now a part of a larger group of information that I, again, because I wasn't paying attention, didn't even know this disparity existed.

Robert Ginyard 21:46

Yes. And that's the duality of it is, you know, you you start thinking about it in terms of the disparities, but at the same time, and this this is kind of that newly diagnosed phase. You're you're looking at disparities, and and part of your mind is, well, wait a minute, why is this happening to us? But then on the other side, you're trying to deal with your treatment that you got to get ready to go through and the decisions that you have to make. So that duality is also challenging to man to manage because, you know, again, you now it's it's it's been brought to light, and you start to see why is this happening? So part of your mind is thinking, how do I change this? And that you you start wearing that advocate. Even before you can treat it. And so that's what adds the pressure on it as well, is because once you've seen it and realize it's out there, that's when it it really starts to make sense. Um and and you want to do more. And I think again, that leads us all to our advocacy and some sort of advocacy.

Grantley Martelly 22:53

So let's go, let's go there. You you have the surgery, you you choose a choice to have the radical prostatectomy. Um how is your recovery? How how did that process go? And then when then once we deal with that, we can we can talk about your revelation of how you lose the rest of your life.

Robert Ginyard 23:12

Yeah, well, the surgery went well. The treatments that followed went well, and and we had talked about this before, Grantley, in that um there's there was a time when I was really hesitant to talk about

Treatment Choices, Data, And Disparities

Robert Ginyard 23:28

my treatment because I, you know, as as much as you can have a good experience with cancer, I had a very good team that worked on me from, again, my primary care physician to my surgeon to the oncologist, I mean, to the nursing staff and all I had a good experience. And I realized that not all men have those types of experiences. And so I'm very cognizant of men who don't have that type of experience. And part of my life's mission now is to make sure that when you go into this, that you line up your team, if you will, to make sure that you have some positive outcomes as well. And so again, my treatment was uh, you know, surgery and then the other treatments that followed uh was relatively, you know, event-free, if you will, in terms of, you know, major side effects or anything like that. So, you know, but part of that, Brantley, I I mean, Grantley, I I've got to say that that was also my mindset, you know, where my mindset switched to uh a prostate cancer patient to a prostate cancer survivor and thriver. And so, I mean, I'm generally always glass half full, uh, you know, rather than half empty. So all of those things I started to incorporate in my treatment and making sure that I exercised and did all the things that I could prep my body, mind, body, and spirit to handle the treatments that were going on. And I think all of that led to a successful outcome.

Grantley Martelly 26:25

So why were you hesitant to share? Why why have you been hesitant to share that?

Robert Ginyard 26:29

Yeah, well, you know, because some some some of the men that I've talked to in in some uh support groups, you know, they they haven't had those experiences. You know, they they didn't have the right doctor, or uh, they felt rushed. And a lot of men feel rushed because, you know, the next thing you know, they don't have a primary care physician and they hadn't gone to the doctors in years. And then they get this diagnosis. And like we talked about earlier, now you're you're rushed into the oncology, the surgical space now. You didn't have that prep time, if you will, to be able to talk to a physician or a primary care physician who knew your body over the course of years and knew what was going on. And, you know, so you just now get moved over into how do you treat this cancer? And so a lot of men that I've talked to in some support groups, they were in the latter part of that. They were just, they were kind of just forced into, I got to get this treated. And so therefore, you know, a lot of their treatment, because some in some cases their cancer was more advanced because they missed that early detection window. So therefore, a lot of times your choices are limited. And so that's why I always preach early detection, give yourself an opportunity for various treatments. And and I think if you if you catch it early, the more positive outcomes you can uh expect. Um, but when it's caught late, you know, again, those are a lot of the men that I talked to, they they caught caught it late. And so therefore their outcomes weren't as positive as they wanted them to be. And they also suffered some some side effects uh of that particular treat. Yes.

Grantley Martelly 28:14

Yeah. So I mean you get back to this, it's sort of like a cycle, right? Because the only way we can do early detection is if you're seeing your physician, a primary care physician, or getting tests before, and that's how you get early detection, which helps you. And if you don't want to see the doctor, then you don't have the process of early detection and you get the diagnosis and now you feel rushed. So that's why we pro we we promote early detection is important, and the only way you can do that is by going in and getting the tests. Yes. And that's why I use my motto for this podcast is because men need to know. You can only make a decision if you have good data.

Robert Ginyard 28:56

Yes.

Grantley Martelly 28:57

Yes. You have to have good data. And unfortunately for us, in many cases, the data has to come from a blood test or from some medical test or some test that's going to give us the information. As you know, many of these things that we face, whether it be prostate cancer or heart disease or high cholesterol or whatever, it's happening in our body before we can feel it.

Robert Ginyard 29:24

Indeed. Indeed. Indeed. And, you know, with prostate cancer, I call it the stealth disease because it is under the radar in most cases. A lot of men will ask me, well, you know, what are the symptoms? And I say, you know, sometimes there are no symptoms. And so that's that's what's what's scary in a way about prostate cancer is that, you know, you you catch it through early detection and PSA and now they have other ways of testing. Um, but the key to that, again, is early detection, uh, so that they can catch that in time. But, you know, it if if you're waiting on symptoms all the time before you go to the doctor, a lot of times that can lead to a late diagnosis.

Grantley Martelly 30:04

Aaron Powell Late Diagnosis, which also means that the treatments are a lot more severe. Yes. And expensive. And expensive, which helps with that feeling of despair and the side effects. Right. The side effects that come with it. Yeah. So let's move on then to you you've been through, you had a positive experience, you came out on the other side. Um did you have any major side effects that was concerning to you?

Robert Ginyard 30:34

Well, a couple of things. After surgery, of course, in terms of intimacy,

Recovery And Intimacy After Treatment

Robert Ginyard 30:38

because let's let's be real, a lot of men, their issue with prostate uh cancer and early detection and seeing a doctor, when you when when the doctor starts to examine anywhere out below the belt line, men have a problem with that. And and when when they talk about prostate cancer, unfortunately, a lot of men have heard the negative side. You know, hey, you know, I am no longer to make love to my significant other and my spouse, and you know, so anything involving prostate, they don't want to hear about. And uh that also played a part in with, you know, in the examination in years past is why men didn't want to get tested for prostate cancer because uh when the doctors were using the digital rectal exam. And so those were kind of the male macho things that kept kept a lot of men from seeing the doctor in in reference to getting a prostate exam. Uh and in my case, after surgery and then, you know, having um undergone the hormone therapy as well, you know, I experienced, you know, some hot flashes and loss of libido, um, but that was temporary. Uh and that temporary time frame, Grantley, you know, it and I mentioned this in several articles that I've written on the subject about intimacy after prostate cancer. Uh, and in the case of mine, it was temporary. And during that process, you know, I got to understand my wife on a completely different level in terms of intimacy, you know, because men, we always programmed it, it's about the physical. But, you know, as I was healing uh and taking the treatment, you know, I was I was making love to my wife mentally. And I got to know her on such a deeper level that once, once I was fully recovered, uh, that even the physical part of it of love making and intimacy was at a different level because I was able to tap into her mindset. And we we just enjoy that time getting to know one another at a deeper level. And, you know, and maybe I'll I'll just speak for myself on this, but when we're younger, you know, we again we always think it's about the physical, but you know, uh you you would probably hear somebody say, well, you know, a a a good mind, you want to a woman with a good mind, and and and you know, when you're younger, you're like, yeah, okay, whatever. Um but later on in life, you're like, yes, because the body fades, the gray hairs come in, you may get a little bit of a big belly and other things that happen. You instead of the uh doing the hustle, now you're doing uh uh wolves, you know, you you can't walk as fast. So a lot of those things change over the years, but if the mind is there, uh that's the person that you fell in love with. That's where the intimacy starts. And so uh I had a upfront close-up view of getting to know my wife on a completely different level.

Grantley Martelly 33:42

So give us an example of what that means, because many guys are going to hear that and they're gonna say, what is what is that? Mental, the mental intimacy.

Robert Ginyard 33:51

Sure. The mental intimacy is a couple of cases where where I would, you know, in passing more this was when my daughters were younger, but I remember watching my wife braid our daughter's hair, and she was getting the girls ready for school. And I just watched her, and it it would it was just like, man, that's my wife. This is a beautiful moment. She's she's braiding my daughter's hair. And that was that was love. I remember us going out to dinner one night and and and watching her tilt her head to the side to put her earrings in. And I was like, look at this beautiful woman. Um, you know, just those, those snapshot moments to let you know that you've got something here. You got a partner who loves you and cares for you. And uh holding hands, you know, the the intimacy of that. Uh, and again, had you told me 20 years ago about holding hands, Grantley, and watching my wife braid hair, like, what does it have to do with anything? But, you know, you again you get older and you're like, wow, you know, and and to know that you've been blessed with a a partner and a help meet to help you navigate troubled waters, man, that's that's intimacy, man. That's that's that's beautiful. Um, you know, the physical part about love making, you know, hey, uh whether it's five minutes, five hours, whatever, you know, that that that fades, but the the enduring love is knowing that you've got somebody there that you can tap into mentally and spiritually, that's intimacy. That's that's intimacy at a completely different level.

Grantley Martelly 35:34

Yes, it is. So now you are you're on the other side, you have survived because you you thought at first you're gonna die and you were making all those plans, and now you realize, hey, I'm alive, and my life is not ended, and I actually feel okay, and I still have strength and I still can do things. So how do you how you walk through that process then of saying, I am still here, and for you it seemed to have been a radical point of enlightenment. Yes. So how how'd you process that to get to where you you came up with the things that you're doing right now?

Robert Ginyard 36:17

Sure. Well, grantly a couple of things. Initially, when I first started my getting involved in advocacy, my wife suggested, and that I was fresh off of my my treatments, my wife suggested

From Survival To Advocacy At Zero

Robert Ginyard 36:31

that I go to a run walk race. And at that time it was uh zero, zero prostate cancer. They have these races around the country and run walks uh series around the country and very good organization. Uh, but she asked me to go out to this event. She said, you ought to go. There'll probably be some other men there and they'll talk about their uh diagnosis and treatments and all. And quite frankly, Grantley, I didn't want to hear it. Uh, you know, it it that morning of the race, uh run walk, I should say, it was raining outside. And again, my wife was she was saying, you really should go. And grantly, I gotta tell you, I was about to do something very sinister here. I said, okay, I'll go. All right. I said, well, there's a coffee shop that's close by near the event, where the event was going to take place. I said, well, I'll go hang out in the coffee shop for maybe three or four hours, and um, you know, I'll wrap it up and go back home. That would be the end of it. But then I had to think about who I was married to. Now, had I come back home with that story, my wife was going to basically interrogate me. Who did you see? What was the lineup like? What what did they talk about? I mean, she would go through the entire program. And so I said, look, you know what? I'm gonna go ahead and go. Um, and I drove out to the site, and it was like the heavens opened up, the rain stopped, the sun started coming through, and I wound up having a wonderful time at this event. I met so many people, uh, particularly men. Um, of course, they had their families there, but a lot of men who had gone through the journey. And here's the other thing, Grantley. I initially thought it was going to be uh filled with older black and white men who had prostate cancer, because we're told that that's that's an old man's disease. You know, you you'll you'll die with prostate cancer rather than from it. You know, that was the line that they would tell most people, and so therefore most men wouldn't get checked. But when I went out to the event, it was so many men out there just loving on one another, talking about their experiences, um, but they were victorious. You know, they came through on the other side. And so uh so that was my introduction to zero at that point. And um I knew that, you know, okay, once I heal, I I want to give back. And I made a promise to myself, Grantley, that when I finished my treatments, I would no longer let stress get to me. I would also go after some long-deferred dreams that I've been holding on for too long. So fast forward a year later after I made that promise, Grantley, I was lying in bed, tossing and turning because I didn't do a darn thing. I was just back to cruise control, Grantley. You know, life kind of resumed where it was. And I had this conviction that night that, you know what, you made a promise, but you didn't fulfill it. And you were spared time. You know, you were given more time on this earth to do something with your life. And so that night, again, I was tossing and turning, and I share this story that I heard this divine voice said, Dibby Dibby. And I'm like, what the heck does that mean? And I always keep a notepad next to my bed. And so I leaned over and wrote it down. I said, okay, dibby dibby, okay. I still don't know what it means, but I'm like, you know, I turned over and said, God, what does this mean? And right away, it was dream it, believe it, do it, be it. And that became a rallying cry for me to get up off my butt, uh, go after some of these long deferred dreams, but in the process, help some men along the way to help them live the best versions of themselves. And that night was the beginning of my advocacy in terms of getting serious about it and getting serious about living.

Grantley Martelly 40:43

So, how how does Dibby Dibby then manifest itself? What is this vision and his purpose? How did that evolve from that concept or not on your nightstand pad to an organization?

Robert Ginyard 40:58

Well, the you know, that next morning I had someone make the design and and uh create the design and and

Dibby Dibby And Finding Purpose

Robert Ginyard 41:03

I wore a t-shirt and it started catching on. But, you know, the it it's it's more than just a catchphrase. What Dibby Dibby is all about, currently, is helping people in general answer three questions about themselves. One is, who am I really? Why am I here? And what am I supposed to do with my life? And answering those three questions uh opens up finding purpose in life. And, you know, we talked about this earlier in that my podcast is also kind of geared towards, and it was based on those three questions. Who am I really? Why am I here and what am I supposed to do with my life? And so uh Dibby Dibby ties into all of that because I also tie dreams into what Langston and Hughes put in a uh dream deferred. You know, at some point, when we defer our dreams and continue to do it, it has, it can have negative effects on life situations. You know, you you you heard of folks who are frustrated with life because they didn't follow a dream or didn't pursue a course of action, and therefore they're mean and and and mad at the world. And sometimes our health can take a bad turn. When we're internalizing all of these frustrations and, again, deferred dreams, that can have a negative impact on our lives. And so my message is now about finding life's purpose. And once you can understand your life's purpose, that also gives you a reason to go to the doctor. That gives you a reason to stick around for your significant other, your family, um, and your friends. And so once you find that why, then you'll do all the things that will help you stay here on earth and live a fruitful life and have an impact on the rest of the world.

Grantley Martelly 42:57

So is this a process that you take people through? Is it is it an organization or is are are you are you just speaking around the country trying to get guys to be motivated to do things different?

Robert Ginyard 43:09

Well, you know, I I stay away from motivation these days, Grantley, because motivation to me fades. If I can tap into inspiring what you are God given with, uh those are the things that I try to bring to the surface. Uh and throw so through my speeches about health health advocacy and leadership, you know, I always throw in the message about Dibby Dibby because again, when you have a reason to live, you do all the things that you need to do to make sure your health, uh you are healthy to pursue those things. And so the the goal of Dibby Dibby, again, is really to kinda uncover some purpose in your life and identify that purpose. And if we again, if we can get the the purpose uh clearly labeled and identified, then you'll do all the things that you need to do to live that life of purpose. Aaron Powell Yes, yes. Um a lot of times it's, you know, through group settings and and talking with men and you know, getting men together to talk about, hey, what's what's on your mind. Um because grantly, you you and I know that there's a there's a mental shift that happens when you get a diagnosis like this. And when you again start to peel back some of the layers, you know, some of the things that adds to the diagnosis is all the things that we said we were going to do. Uh and so I I'm a strong believer that part of treatment of cancer in any form also should have a component of mental health because now you're you're starting to think about the clock of life. And and so a lot of times you're able to get the physical treatment done, but then there's a mental aspect that still not up to par because of what you experienced. So I think mental health counseling uh through the process is essential, uh, and not only for cancer patients, but in general. Um, sometimes we need to talk to someone and talk these issues through because what the the the body will typically follow where where the mind goes. And so if the mind isn't right, then that opens up, you know, other ailments and things that may come along in the physical form.

Grantley Martelly 45:35

And that's something we were talking about, right, uh just this week, the importance of mental health as part uh the treatment plan, treatment team when when people are faced with these major health issues and and how that is processed. And yes, your experience was like mine. You know, the doctors were really good. I I also happen to have a really good medical team. I didn't know that at the time, but I come to find that out. I come to find that out. And uh in fact the oncologist that I went to for the second opinion said, do you know you have one of the best onc oncol

Mental Health, Trust Circles, And Real Talk

Grantley Martelly 46:18

oncology surgeons in this region? Your team? I said, no, but that's good to know. You know he said, well, if I were you and I was looking for somebody to to do this, um she would be the first person on my list. Yeah. To call to do this. So you know the physical part of it, God bless me with a really good team, really good hospital, really good experience afterwards. But the mental and emotional challenges were just left out completely. In fact my my surgeon didn't even know how to answer that when I brought it up didn't really didn't even know to answer that. Well you know um go ahead.

Robert Ginyard 47:06

I was gonna say Grantley you know but but that's also something that I think survivors also need to pass along to men to talk about that piece of it because again, you know a lot of times we we talk about the physical piece because that's what most men want to hear. Like how did you get through this? But because they're so interested in the physical piece, how do I recover? How do I become uh sexually active again and intimate with my partner again. So they want to hear about that piece of it. But then we also need to make sure that they understand the mental part of it because that plays so such a big role that it is it's not until you go through some of these traumatic experiences with cancer and other um you know diseases that then that kicks in and you say oh okay I understand that was for me I started asking all of these questions what am I going through what am I doing?

Grantley Martelly 48:05

There are people I can talk to and well there's a group here and a group there. You know I was never really referred to a specialist to to to speak to and um and I started learning you know asking questions. Eventually I was pointed to um the backpack organization at the Fred Hutchison Cancer Institute that you and I are both now members of and on the board on panels there. And then through that I got connected to Zero Prostate Cancer, the the African American uh national African American support group there that began to to to help me find a place to talk about that. But then I I was also involved in a legal issue and I started to do some research about the mental challenges that comes about after you've had a major diagnosis like cancer or something like that and found there were actually papers written on this stuff and people had actually been studying this stuff. And I remember one day reading a paper and I was reading it and I was like that happened to me that happened to me I experienced that I experienced that and this is like a year later that I'm reading this paper saying that's what you went through.

Robert Ginyard 49:26

Yes.

Grantley Martelly 49:27

That is what you read through right nobody's nobody explaining it to me. So now like you I am a big advocate of we need to have mental health support on the support teams not only for cancer patients but for people with all of these major things because we don't know what we don't know. It took me a year to figure it out.

Robert Ginyard 49:51

Right and and a year post a year after a year but you know but and that gets back to you know for our country in general and particularly in in certain cultures you don't talk about mental health that's kind of a no-no you know you you keep that it within the four walls of the house you know it doesn't go out any further than that and you know men again they have to be in a circle of trust where they begin to share what's going on mentally but i if if there was a a a key factor in someone saying that's going to show my weakness or uh or that I'm vulnerable, that is mental health. Most men and women for that matter, a lot of times we don't talk about that. Now and particularly for men, we have to wear that I got it all under control. And I'm you know somebody asks you how's everything going Grantley and you're like I I'm good in reality I'm like are you really good though? And so again we've got to be able to ask those questions with some intention and purpose behind just uh yeah I'm I'm good I'm okay uh and and I'll point back to this Grantley in that when when you talked about us serving on the um the backpack together if you recall the the one meeting that we had um I think it was about a year ago where one brother opened up about something that was going on in his life and it was like everybody was waiting for that because if you recall it opened up the people were open and honest at that point. And and it was a beautiful thing to see men talking about what was going on in their lives. And one one gentleman talked about you know his father and and that relationship and and then you know I looked around the room and I'm like I see some some men tearing up in here. And it was just a beautiful thing because they had permission and they didn't have to ask for it. It was just it just happened and I I I looked around the room and and we were all sharing some some deep stuff. And so just imagine covering that all up and then dealing with the cancer diagnosis and and journey and so again it gets back to that that mental health aspect where um you know we've got to find those circles of men that can support us in in and we can share some of those things that have been on our minds for a while in a trusted circle. In a trusted circle yeah yeah yeah that we can that that that we can get some of those things off of our chest. And uh again some of that comes with age now I you know I I look at how old I am now I'm 64 now and then and my circle is very supportive and I'm quite sure yours is as well but as you get older you know yeah you're done with all the pretenses and stuff like that. It is what it is. And so to have a circle of men that will say yeah I got your back all right as long as you got your front I got your back that will hold us accountable as well. You know they won't give us a pity party but like how can I help you through this? But I want to make sure you're trying to help yourself as well.

Grantley Martelly 53:18

So um so yeah yeah like so I also found too yeah that this experience you know has made me more open to talk about stuff.

Robert Ginyard 53:28

Yes.

Grantley Martelly 53:28

You know I was like I I'll talk to anybody who wants to hear about it. I'll tell you if you want to hear about it or not. If you want to ask me about it, I'll tell you about the experience because one of the things that one of my guests and the one of the hosts of our black men support group, uh, he says we need to normalize the conversation around mental health. We need to make it as normal as saying I had prostate cancer or I had a heart attack or you know I'm not feeling well today. And a lot of times we say I'm not feeling well if I'm not feeling physically well, but we won't say the same thing, you know, if we're struggling mentally or emotionally we'll just say I'm all right. So I like that term that he used normalize the conversation. Yes make it okay for people to say I want to talk about this. You know I've tried to become a I've sort of become an unintentional advocate I guess a podcast takes away all the all the secrecy right yes well yeah that's one way to do it.

Robert Ginyard 54:38

But you know the other thing I'll say too grantly is that um sometimes I I don't think the mental health is discussed so much in that everybody's carrying something. And so a lot of times you know the question is is is asked you know hey uh Grantley how you feel and surface level you say hey I'm I'm doing good and then part of me maybe okay that's great because I've got something going on and I don't need to hear a lot. And and so so it a lot of times it depends on what we're caring as well if if we're able to ask that question and then be able to step back and say you know I asked that question with some intention to it. And so I have to be able to listen intentionally you know to say okay well if if you're gonna start sharing then I got to be ready to okay let me listen. And so a lot of times you know when when people ask us, we don't think they have time to hear us in full or that the question was posed to us as a kind of a formality but they're not really expecting me to to share something.

Grantley Martelly 55:55

So yeah yeah you know and I had that happen to me you know years ago not with this here but with a a another in another context with a spiritual issue I saw a friend one day and I I actually he was a coworker and I needed something from him so I went to his place where he was working he worked in a workshop and um to get it done and you know I was standing there waiting for and like you said to you know we're just having conversation and I said well how you really do how are you doing today you know and he just thought what he was doing he looked at me and he said are you asking me to be polite or do you really want to know how I'm doing yeah and I said well I'm here for you to help me so you have my attention for as long as you want you can make this project last as long as you want and you got my full attention so he said okay yeah so literally what was probably a 15 minute process turned into like an hour. Yeah and he started really telling me what he was going through and he was going through a really really tough time mentally emotionally spiritually I mean he was really really going through a tough time. Anyhow it turned into a like a six month conversation you know how you doing today how you're not doing today and him talking to me and telling me things you know and and then it turned into a spiritual crisis and he wanted some spiritual direction from the Bible but it began with are you asking me to be polite or do you really want to know how I'm doing yeah yeah and and he had the boldness to ask me that but like you were saying sometimes people feel we're just asking to be polite so they're not really gonna tell us. Right.

Robert Ginyard 57:42

And I never forget that it probably you know it was probably a a heart tug because you know he wanted he needed to release that and and wanted your permission you know when he asked you that question because you know there would there was some some mutual benefit there. And I I think once you confirm that hey well we got some time so you you you never know what blessings that come our way.

Grantley Martelly 58:11

Come out of that yeah so part of it is the conversation you know taking the time to be con to be conversant and many of us today like we began this podcast everybody is so busy and now I I talk to people about being intentional about taking time to have conversations with people. Yes being intentional to go to the coffee shop you know sometimes the guys will text me or they want hey let's get together and I say okay let's meet at my new office my new office is Panero bread let's meet at my new office.

Robert Ginyard 58:41

And grant me grant me have you have you found that people are moving back towards that hey let's let's sit down let's let's let's stop the pace for a little bit and and I've experienced that experienced that as well grantly in that I I've I've noticed that people are taking some time to say you know what I could email you I could text you but let's go get some coffee. Can we meet? And and I I think uh we are headed for some people back to uh that that social, that contact uh not social media, but the the act of sitting in front of one another now to have a a conversation. So uh I I thought it was just me but glad to know you're experiencing that as well.

Grantley Martelly 59:29

Same thing. I'm doing it like regularly every two weeks. So there's somebody let's go to the let's go I meet you at the office and we have coffee together. We talk together okay so you know we we've covered a lot of topics here and um and I think this is really important because you know we're sharing our journey so that other guys can can can learn from us and and feel free to learn from our experience and also you take it into their experience. Are there any other things that you want to share?

Robert Ginyard 1:00:02

I would say a couple of things, Grantley in closing um for men out there, I would say it's important to have your family history, know your family history, prostate

Family History, Early Detection, And Contact Info

Robert Ginyard 1:00:14

cancer or any other diseases that that uh may run in the family, but have the conversations about family history. A lot of times, you know we we don't like to talk about it because mentally we think if we if we know about it somehow in some way it's going to manifest itself and then we'll get what we're talking about. But we need to have that conversation about family history. And then secondly I would say you know it's about early detection. You know get tested get a primary care physician if you don't have one ask some of your trusted friends you know if they have a good referral and and again knowing the family history and early detection I think puts you on the path to really living the best life that you can live. And you know and I would also say that make sure that your mental health is not on the backbone. Because as we get older um the mental health aspect of our lives controls so much of the physical and so I I would definitely say um that the mental health should also be at at the at the top of your chart in terms of if you had to check some things off. So uh those those three things I think will really be important.

Grantley Martelly 1:01:36

Yeah those are those are critically important for all of us. Yes. So if someone if some person wanted to get a hold of you, wanted to find out more about your organization, the things you do or even invite you to come and speak, what's the best way for them to do that?

Robert Ginyard 1:01:48

Well the best way is uh you can go to roberginyard.com at RobertGinyard R-O-B-E-R-T G-I-N-Y-A-R-D.com. You can find me there. My podcast is intentionally overheard so you can find that uh on most of the major platforms and those are the best ways to reach out to me Grantley I want to thank you for coming and sharing with us.

Grantley Martelly 1:02:15

I want to thank you for being open and vulnerable and I want to also encourage you to continue your your work as as you're doing thank you Grantley and I will say this thank you so much for doing what you're doing.

Robert Ginyard 1:02:28

You are making a difference I'm glad our paths crossed a couple of years ago and uh you are really making an impact out there. So continued blessings to you and your family and all the good health that your heart can desire I wish same to you and your family.

Grantley Martelly 1:02:45

All right thank you write to us at realhealth blackmen at gmail dot com realhealth blackmen at gmail dot com to support this podcast go to buymeacoffee.com forward slash realhealth blackmen buymeacoffee.com realhealth blackmen and to become a corporate sponsor send us an email