Why Vulnerability Matters

Hakim Asadi 0:00

Another way is how do we normalize vulnerability? Now, I know we don't like that word. I know that is a very triggering word to us, but I think a part of that vulnerability, it helps foster the deep and meaningful relationships that we're looking for, that community that we're looking for. Um, and it helps shift the culture to normalize that to normalize, but also debunk this hustle culture, right? My me being strong is actually me just suppressing my emotions and suppressing drama and suppressing wounds when I I bet if the minute you talk about something that has been challenging, somebody in the room is gonna say, yeah, me too.

Show Purpose And What To Expect

Grantley Martelly 0:42

This is the Real Health Black Men podcast, where we empower men to take control of their health. We provide vital information and build community support. Join us as we discuss everything from major health challenges to mental wellness to physical fitness. So if you're ready to level up your health and your life, you're in the right place. Let's get started. So welcome back to Real Health Black Men on the podcast. Today my guest is Hakeem Asadi. I'm looking forward to our conversation with him today. Um we met through the Zero Prostate Cancer Men's Support Group or Black Men's Support Group. And Hakeem has been our host, and I've really got to know him and appreciate the way his look at life and the and the work that he does. And I thought he would be a great guest for our podcast today. So welcome, Hakeem.

Hakim Asadi 1:44

Yes, thank you. Thank you for having me. Uh I think this is a great opportunity to talk about mental health for sure.

Grantley Martelly 1:53

I know it's the beginning of our episode, but I wanted to take this moment to thank you for your support and to thank you for sharing our podcast with your friends and relatives. You know, in this podcast world, the way that we survive and the way that we continue to grow is by your support. And when you like or subscribe to the episodes or to the podcast itself. So I want to encourage you, if you enjoy what we're producing and it's helpful to you and to your family and to your friends, then consider subscribing or consider liking, uh, also leaving a comment, and that will really help us. Thank you for your support. Now let's listen to this episode.

Meet Hakim Asadi And His Work

Grantley Martelly 2:32

Yes, welcome. Let's begin by introducing yourself. You know, we we know your name, but what do you do? Where do you live? Tell us bit about yourself so that our audience can identify with you as a real person, not just a therapist.

Hakim Asadi 2:46

Yeah, yeah. Um, so my name is Hakim Asadi. I'm a licensed social worker and speaker. Um, I'm from upstate New York, but I live in Atlanta, Georgia. Uh, I moved to Atlanta about four years ago, um, primarily for just like expansion in life, but also for work. And so with work, I primarily work with black men, um professionals, college students, community leaders, and helping them build in their emotion, connect better to their emotional intelligence. And how do we um create spaces of authenticity for people to really heal trauma and and really connect to or reimagine their wholeness and what that looks like? And so that years past has worked with um substance use, HIV care, and recently prostate cancer.

Grantley Martelly 3:31

So you're you're a therapist, and you said you you specialize in HIV, prostate cancer, and you start in substance abuse. So um are you like seeing clients or are you more of a consultant or do you work in a hospital environment? Tell us a little bit more about your practice.

Hakim Asadi 3:50

Yeah, so I actually have my private practice. So I work individually, but uh I also do public speaking. So there's some consulting there, but uh a lot of public speaking where I'll go to different conferences and work have workshops and um talk about mental and emotional wellness in a way that is more um broad for the community, for depending on the audience, but um I do enjoy one-on-one therapy, but I also I actually have here lately really enjoyed the public speaking aspect of things. And so um that really I'm I I always get this question around like when did you start doing public speaking? And I can never pinpoint when it was because I grew up in church, and so growing up in church, you're I was always the kid that was always throwing the mic to do something. And so public speaking has always been a part of just growing up. But I think for my career, I think it started out when I was like assisting, doing some trainings in the community in upstate New York. And then from there, I just felt like this was a natural thing. And I'm I'm always big on how do I make mental and emotional wellness tangible for the people who don't know or don't think about it in that way.

Defining Mental And Emotional Wellness

Grantley Martelly 5:06

What's your definition of mental and emotional wellness?

Hakim Asadi 5:10

My definition is uh it has to do with are you well? Like, are you is your being well? The sum total of who you are, is is your being well mentally and emotionally? So when we're thinking mentally, how it how are your thoughts? How it what's your connection to your your level of consciousness and the way you think, how you perceive the world, how you perceive yourself, your sense of self. And then emotionally is we all have emotions, but we don't often uh know how to connect to our emotions or process our emotions. It it tends to be happy, sad, or mad, but we can see that there's a plethora of other emotions that we can experience that's a part of our human experience that we tend to suppress for whatever reason. And so mental and emotional wellness is how connected am I to my wellness, both mentally and emotionally?

Health Crises Bring Hidden Grief

Grantley Martelly 6:02

So I'm gonna make this a little bit personal, ask you, because we we met through the black men's prostate cancer support group. How important is mental and emotional wellness when it comes to dealing with major health challenges?

Hakim Asadi 6:21

Yeah, I think it's it's I think it's so important. Um, but often the focus is on the physical health challenge. Um, but so often folks are going through a lot of changes. And with said changes, there can be the experiences of grief. But we don't name it that. We just kind of go along to, you know, heal or feel better or move through so we we can literally feel better. But I think there's something to acknowledge, the grief that comes with that, right? There's changes in your body, there's changes in relationships, there's changes to identity. A lot of times when we go through these health challenges or health changes, it shakes up who I am and how I show up in the world. That's a part of your mental health.

Grantley Martelly 7:13

Yeah. And the the thing that occurred to me in my experience was that my body had gone through or is still going through, uh major traumatic experience, right? An invasion of your body. And coupled with that was the for many people, the traumatic experience of hearing that you have cancer or heart disease or hypertension, you know, whatever that major health issue is. So you hear that and your mind begins to to process it. Then you go through this physical experience of surgery or radiation or whatever the treatment was, and now you're in recovery. But there hasn't been much discussion along the way with the healthcare professionals about the emotional and mental changes that are happening in those three phases the diagnosis, treatment, and recovery.

Hakim Asadi 8:15

Yeah, and and with that, there's there's the ebbs and flows of that, the the shifts within relationships. So I know um working with someone individually, going through changes in life, just general life changes, a lot of that their independence took an impact. And so now the question is how do we look for how do we look for your independence, but in a way that shifts that it's it's okay to ask for help. It's okay to have that additional support, and it doesn't take away from your masculinity. Because so often we're challenging cultural and and um you know those those social norms that uh older gentlemen might have a a rigid thought around. Like I'm supposed to be the man of the house, or I'm supposed to show up this way, or I'm supposed to be this to my family, and here it is, I have to rely on my family to help me with certain things. Does that impact you and your role in these folks' lives? Probably not. But how do we unlearn that social conditioning that has actually been a detriment to black men versus it actually healing or moving us forward in the aspect of emotional and mental wellness?

Grantley Martelly 9:35

Yeah, so we have these habits and hangups that are built into us. And sometimes we recognize them and sometimes we don't, right? Some of them are because of the environment that we are in and it just seems to be normal. And then other times it could be pointed out to us. But we have these habits and hangups that sometimes prevent us from first of all recognizing that we're going through this mental and emotional shift, and then, like you said, also reaching out for help.

Language Shifts That Reduce Stigma

Grantley Martelly 10:04

So the question I'm a question here is what can we do to normalize this conversation in specifically in the black and people and people of color community, normalize the conversation around mental health and wellness so that there's not that either resistance or sometimes even a stigma to say I need help or I need to see a therapist.

Hakim Asadi 10:31

Yes. The first thing is I I think low-hanging fruit is how we talk about it. Because so often we talk about it in a way that is that perpetuates the stigma. We say things like I'm not crazy, or we say things like I'm not weak, or you know, though the the language that speaks to I don't need this, when really that's why I I change the language and say mental and emotional wellness versus mental health or mental illness. Right. Because that tends to, there tends to be a connection to uh something has to be wrong with me in order for me to start this journey. When no, it's just about our being well, right? So I'm very intentional about using that language because how you talk about something is all uh oftentimes reflected in how you think about something. And so start with changing the language instead of saying therapy, let's say support, perhaps. Um, coaching, mental fitness, different things that will resonate with some with the people you're talking to, uh, because therapy by itself tends to have a stigma. Another way is how do we normalize vulnerability? Now, I know we don't like that word. I know that is a very triggering word to us. But I think a part of that vulnerability, um, it helps foster the deep and meaningful relationships that we're looking for, that community that we're looking for. Um, and it helps shift the culture to normalize that, to normalize, but also debunk this hustle culture, right? My me being strong is actually me just suppressing my emotions and suppressing drama and suppressing wounds when I if I bet if the minute you talk about something that has been challenging, somebody in the room is gonna say, Yeah, me too.

Grantley Martelly 12:15

Mm-hmm.

Hakim Asadi 12:16

That by yourself.

Grantley Martelly 12:18

We feel we're on our journey by ourselves, not realizing that people around us may be on the same journey.

Hakim Asadi 12:25

Exactly. And let's offer that opportunity. And so, in the practice and public speaking and a part of my my business, I call it healing out loud. Okay. Absolutely. And so those are those are a couple of ways that I think we can normalize it. Um starting young. How are we teaching young children emotional literacy, like naming feelings and talking about it from a place of strength rather than weakness, and highlighting support in a way that's it's helpful because I I think a part of our resilience, I think a part of our resilience as a as a people is community. We know that. But the challenge is sometimes it hits a plateau because we're only surface level.

Grantley Martelly 13:40

I find it interesting how you you talk about just changing the word, right? From mental health to mental wellness and realizing that, and I think we know this subconsciously, but all the time we don't recognize it consciously, that words have meaning and some words have triggers. So a professional term may be okay in the professional setting, but when you come to talk to people in real life in the communities, in the neighborhood, the churches, or like we're just talking here across the across the country, those words that in the professional setting may have meaning and you're dealing with them as a professional, outside of there, they carry a trigger that you said somebody would say, Well, I'm not crazy, so I don't need any mental health help.

Hakim Asadi 14:29

Right, exactly. Exactly.

Grantley Martelly 14:31

Compared to what, like you said, what are we doing to take care of our mental and emotional wellness? And now to me, that seems to take on a different term of okay, I want to be well. It's not about being whatever that stigma is, it's about I want to be well through this process. Right? So to me that that sort of stuck with me. I've I've never really thought about it like that until you just mentioned that changing the changing the talk, the words that we use can help break down some of those barriers.

Hakim Asadi 15:08

Yes, absolutely.

Grantley Martelly 15:11

So we talk about the talk, we talk about being vulnerable, which is another thing in the in the cultural language, and then healing out loud, and then helping our young people to begin to realize that this is okay. So that brought us into like cultural barriers. And what are some of the other cultural barriers that you may have noticed in your practice dealing with men that you have to help us overcome as we are on this journey to mental wellness?

Hakim Asadi 15:42

Yeah, cultural, cultural. I'm laughing because um early in my career I worked with um folks on parole. And I I didn't uh there was a social justice lens that I had to incorporate in the work. I just couldn't go in

Cultural Barriers And Anger Patterns

Hakim Asadi 16:01

there and talk about it was really um anger management, and I couldn't go in there and talk, you know, do all the the social work or therapist language because that wouldn't that wouldn't have been effective, right? So taking into account how black men process and express their emotions, right? That is uh related to historical trauma, generational trauma, um, and experiences again around social conditioning. If I'm in a space where I'm feeling feelings, but I don't have an outlet to express them in a healthy way, I don't have the tools to express them in a healthy way, we tend to, as a society, go to anger. Because anger is an emotion that is widely accepted. We have games around it, we have sports around it. You can go on social media and type in anger and fight, and it's millions of videos will come up because it's something that we've normalized as a society. And so when I it comes time to express or emote, it tends to be uh connected to anger. And so there are a lot of historical and generational barriers that we have to unlearn. Um, and one of them is connecting to emotions in a different way, right? So allow yourself to be angry, absolutely, anger is valid. But what I've learned is anger is a secondary emotion. There's something underneath the anger that has come before that we don't give space to, and we don't let that emotion uh breathe in order to like not get so angry, right? So understanding historical and generational trauma, understanding the use and the purpose behind the anger, and also again, that that strong black man narrative, right? That's ultimately emotional suppression. And it's we tend to conflate that with resilience. It's not, I mean, yes, it's it's allowing us to move through life, but definitely from a survival perspective. And if we want to move beyond that, we have to uh talk about life in a different way, but also accept that additional support.

Grantley Martelly 18:04

That's really good. You know, because sometimes we think that we're, like you said, we're pushing through it, not realizing we're carrying all of that baggage with us as we're pushing through it. The load may be getting heavier as we're pushing through. Absolutely. And then eventually something has to happen. And the whole purpose of this conversation is to try to help the men in our community realize that we we don't have to come to a breaking point before we seek assistance. We we don't have to keep carrying that burden to feel that we're strong. Sometimes strength is admitting that we're weak. Yes.

Hakim Asadi 18:43

Admitting it in a way that doesn't necessarily speak to weakness, but more so I can use the support. I can use the support. Yeah. I can use the support, right? Because I think I think it's important, right? I think that's and it's also a game changer, right? Because when you are uh uh on a team, you rely on your teammates. Right. But if I feel like I'm in this game by myself, I I'm I you might be struggling, right? So how do I form my team of people that help me get through and navigate life? Because as a black man in America or black man anywhere, I mean, as we can see, that is already a a challenge, right? It's already a challenge and it's all already navigating stress and um different barriers that don't allow you to be, don't allow you to exist. And so if I'm navigating these various the various barriers by myself, it can feel very isolating. It can feel very lonely.

Grantley Martelly 19:52

Yes. You know, one of the things that we look at in another group that I'm on is called the social determinants of healthcare. And uh I'm sure you can talk about that in length. But one of the things that came come up there is that sometimes just your geography can have an effect on your emotional and mental health. Just where you live, your zip code alone, without you even realizing it, you could have been born there, living there your whole life, and not realizing the effect that this is having on you.

Zip Code Trauma And Daily Stress

Hakim Asadi 20:28

Absolutely.

Grantley Martelly 20:29

And sometimes that's hard for people to understand. I was talking to a gentleman who who was not black. He said, Tell me more about that. I've never thought about the social determinants of health and emotional care, and that your zip code could have an effect on how you live. So I tried to explain to him your social and cultural and historical issues where people live, and you can map it and you can see that certain illnesses and certain diseases, whether it's mental or physical or emotional, appear in clusters in certain parts of the country or in certain parts of the world, for instance, even if you talk about places where there have been war and genocide and stuff like that. And those things, even though they might not have happened to the physical harm, right, might not have happened to you. Just living in that community has an effect on you because you're living around the people who have lived through that and you're still going through that. And some of them might have been related to you. Could be your father or your mother or your sister, or you might have seen lots of harm in your community. You may still be whole, but you might have seen lots of people die or lots of people get sick or whatever it is, and it has an effect on you. And for him, that was like eye-opening. He was like, I I never thought about it like that. And the thing is, he has had the privilege of not having to think about it like that.

Hakim Asadi 22:06

Exactly. And I think that's so important to name that there are some people who have the they have the privilege of not even thinking about it when we think about this every day without knowing that we're thinking about it every day. Uh, black people are 20% more likely to experience psychological trauma and psychological challenges than other communities. Why? It's because exactly. Exactly, environments, a historical trauma, again, intergenerational trauma, again, vicarious trauma. And to what you're speaking to is that environment watching and hearing gunshots and people dying. Like, I remember one time we were uh me and my cousins and another friend were out in uh Brooklyn and just walking, and she casually mentioned she saw somebody get shot here in middle school. And I turned to her and was like, are you serious? Like, and she was like, Yeah, and it was very much a casual, normalized conversation. And there I it it dawned on me that that's trauma.

Grantley Martelly 23:10

Right.

Hakim Asadi 23:10

And I'm curious as to how that showed up in a middle schooler navigating and going to school and working and doing other things, but because life had to move on, I didn't have time to process that vicarious trauma or that trauma, that traumatic experience. And so, how often are many of us hearing about the news, hearing on the news, uh seeing things in the environment, hearing things outside where it may have not happened directly to us, but because I'm in that vicinity or because it's an earshot, I still go through some traumatic physical experiences, even mental and emotional, for sure.

Grantley Martelly 23:49

Yeah, as you said that, the picture came to my mind that she experienced that and immediately have to figure it out how am I gonna survive. And she developed and you can tell me I'm not a therapist, you can tell me. So she in my mind, she developed an automatic system that says, I have to deal with this, I have to keep going on, I have to survive. Whether she dealt with it or not, she developed a coping mechanism since that day until the time she spoke to you of how she's dealt with it, even though she may not have even expressed how she dealt with it.

Hakim Asadi 24:23

Exactly. Exactly. And and because she made a joke, and I and I love us because we'll we'll use humor to kind of cope through things. Um, but she was like, Yeah, I still had to go to school because the other the trauma on the other end was getting in trouble for not making it to school by my mom. It's like I understand that, but like both things can be true. How do we understand like that's been that's a traumatic experience? And yes, you had to get to school, but and at the same time, that's something that a middle schooler should be processing.

Grantley Martelly 24:56

And even more than that, a middle schooler should not be experiencing.

Hakim Asadi 25:00

Yes, that that part.

Grantley Martelly 25:01

In the perfect environment, right? That should not be something at that age that a child is having to deal with and develop a corporate mechanism.

Hakim Asadi 25:11

Right. But to to your to your point, and to bring it back to black men, I think black men have seen so much, heard so much. And again, that that strong narrative, you have to be strong, that's connected to your masculinity, that's connected to your identity. There's no space, anything other than that.

Grantley Martelly 25:30

Yes, that you have to do that. Right. So I want to I want to switch the topic a little bit to something that we didn't discuss in our prelim, but this topic of um survivor's guilt. You know, you go through this traumatic experience, like we talked about health, whether it be a health experience, or you and and it is significant enough that there was a potential that you may not have made it through, right? Because so many of our friends have not have not made it through. And we made it through, and we're surviving, we're thriving, we may still be healing, but we

Survivor’s Guilt And Loyalty Pressure

Grantley Martelly 26:08

made it through. And at some point we think back of our friends who didn't make it, or people we know who didn't make it. And I'm I'm on another group with some young some men that I went to school with from primary school all the way now, and now we're on a chat group. And one of the things that came up this week was how much how many of our schoolmates have passed on and we are still here. And then the other environment that it was brought up in was by a doctor who who was talking about patients who go through these traumatic things and have the same conversation about, well, this person didn't make it, this person didn't make it, but I made it. So what does that mean for me? The reason I brought it up was that I realized that is another emotional experience that I am dealing with that maybe I was not even as clearly knowledgeable of it until he brought it up and say and give it a definition of survivor's guilt.

Hakim Asadi 27:10

Yeah.

Grantley Martelly 27:10

Does that make sense to you?

Hakim Asadi 27:12

Oh, yeah, it makes perfect sense. Um and it shows up in in the different different um different areas of where I've worked, though, substance use. Like you have people that you've been um, let's say in the community with using, and then you are in recovery. There's survival's guilt there. Um health, right? Uh I survived and been able to navigate and thrive um with these health conditions where other people haven't. Um getting out of poverty, right? There's there's survival guilt there. What I like to name it and reframe it as it's there's a level of empathy and compassion there for others. And I think that's important to name because it actually allows you to connect in a different way than versus feeling like I'm disconnected. Because that survivor's guilt can also often be named as that grief, another form of grief. But in efforts to help us see humanity and that connection, it's it's actually empathy and combat and compassion uh that we have for one another. And I think it's really it's dope and to name it that um you approach it in a different way, you start thinking about it in a different way. Um, because now it's like, one, how can I support? Where where can I support? How do I give service? How do I give back? But then also there it allows you to redefine some things, right? Because a lot of times there's this um the idea of loyalty, right? In in some of these different areas, right? Health, it might be something different, but there might be this sense of loyalty, and that my growth is actually betrayal to my community. And how do we process that? How do we process that your healing isn't abandonment? You just you're on a different journey, or you're on the journey, whereas other people may not have the insight or may not know or have the readiness to start their journey. So that that loyalty, how do we redefine that loyalty? Because that might look different in this place that you're in now. How do we um look at coupled with loyalty is that sense of responsibility? I think sometimes that guilt is uh we we take on this responsibility for people in communities. And are we owed that? Do we have do we have to do that? Or is that responsibility in the same way? And one of the things with naming it as empathy and compassion is how do we give honor to that? Right? Because you shrinking or um feeling guilty doesn't serve anybody, it doesn't serve yourself, it doesn't serve the peop the community that you feel like you've survived, and it doesn't help the people that you want to help uplift. And so how do we use that honor, um, that empathy and compassion to really uh in service of others.

Grantley Martelly 31:26

You said something there that is going through my mind about is not is not abandonment. The fact that you have survived or you have grown. Yeah. It's not necessary that you're abandoning your community. I never thought about it that you could have those feelings of abandonment or that you're moving on. Mm-hmm. Uh that's an interesting thought. Yeah but you also mentioned the thing about um escaping poverty as one of these uh things of this compassion, looking back and empathy. And I never thought about that as could be included in this section of thought of survivors, right? Survivors and move and moving out. But when you when you when you added the part about not feeling abandonment, I sort of put the two together there, right? That you're not abandoning them. The fact that you have grown to this point doesn't mean that you forget who you are or what you are or the people you left behind. Yeah. Yeah. That was eye-opening for me. Yeah. You're doing therapy online. You're doing therapy online on the on the episode, it's just in your blood.

Hakim Asadi 32:46

Yeah, I actually in my in the private practice I see it a lot where people are um they feel guilty for sometimes even doing therapy and and trying to choose themselves, right? There's there's something about um your self-care being conflated with being selfish. It's like, I don't think that that's not fair to you and your journey because that's actually self-compassion. Again, there's that word, self-compassion versus being selfish.

Grantley Martelly 33:15

And you can even tie that back to what you're talking about before, the fact that you can afford to go to therapy of the part then with with escaping poverty or a different standard of living, where there are others who may not be able to afford that. And then why can't I afford it? And they can't.

Hakim Asadi 33:37

Yeah. But even to take it a step further, there's uh so I also work at a nonprofit in the in the community, and um it's even just clarity in mind. It's not um financially, because that that that therapy is free for some of the clients that come to me, right? So it's free, and so it's not even a matter of affordability, it's just I have the mental capacity to expand and dream in a different way. And because my mental or my mentality has beyond poverty, I feel guilty for thinking about life in a different way. You know, does that make sense?

Grantley Martelly 34:19

Yeah, yeah. That's eye-opening. Yeah, this is really good. I'm enjoying this. Bringing up things that are just causing my reasons in my head to spin about, wow, this is amazing. How these things fit together. But it brings us back to where we started, right? That sometimes we're not necessarily conscious of all of these changes and transitions going on around us. We're just trying to get through it and not recognizing all of these other things that are there. You keep bringing them out as we go, and I keep saying, Yeah, I didn't recognize that well then. I have never I've never called it grief. I say that I've been through a mental and emotional transition that I did not expect to go through. That's the way that I put it. But I think that fits your definition of grief, isn't it?

Hakim Asadi 35:08

Absolutely. Yes. Yeah.

Grantley Martelly 35:09

So I've I've never called it grief before, but now I have a better term to put it, the process that I've been through and still going through. Yeah. Yeah. And then there's that that last piece that I want to talk about before we go on to the next topic is coming to the realization that you may never go back to how it was. Because part of this journey is as we go through, we get diagnosed, we we have treatment, or we we go through therapy, we come out on the other side and we're healing. The first thing in my mind, at least, I don't want to speak for everybody, was like, how do I get back to who I was and what I was? And finally coming to the realization now that getting back to where I was is probably no longer the goal. It's learning to live with a new reality of who I am. Right.

Hakim Asadi 35:57

Right. And I think that's where therapy can come into play is because it creates a space of authenticity for you to reimagine what that looks like. Um it it it's uh it allows you to pause and think in a different way. And so early in my career, again, we used to, and I think probably in college, um, this term became like a trending term, like new creating a new normal. Right? And so in your creating a new normal, one, I think the the the point that I love making with people is you get to create the life that you want. Right? I'm a spiritual person, uh church kid for sure, through and through. And I think one of the greatest gifts that we have is being able to create that's directly connected to divinity and God and and all the things. And so given the space, what life are you creating? With this new normal, with this new uh experience in life, what does that life look like for you? And you again get to create that. And I think what a part of the experiences in therapy is you get to create new meaning around trauma. You get to create new meaning around particular wounds, and again, you get to create

Creating A New Normal With Joy

Hakim Asadi 37:17

the life that you want with said wounds in your healing process and in your healing journey. Does that make sense?

Grantley Martelly 37:23

Oh, yeah, you're talking to me, man. You're talking directly to me. I'm hearing there's an hour like, yeah, yeah. I'm just checking boxes here as you're going through this. Uh yeah, that that that was part of the journey. What is the new normal? I get to create it, and how do I live in this new normal? Has been my journey for the past two years.

Hakim Asadi 37:46

Yeah. And with that, it's it's who's on my team. Like who's in my life that I know would help me navigate grief, but also help me seek joy. Because the two can coexist, but I want people in my life that remind me and reflect joy to me. I don't want the people that's in sit in victimhood, because then that's gonna just, that that energy is gonna bring me to a place that I don't want to be, right? And so who's in my life, who's on my team, who's in my circle, that adds value and adds joy to my life. Because I'm already, I know I'm gonna, I know I'm gonna be grieving because this is a part of the journey. And it changes as you as you go and grow with health changes, you may discover something six months in that you never had to experience. And there's grief right there. Man, now I have to grapple, now I have to reconcile. And so I want a team that is supportive, that brings me joy, that helps me seek joy, that helps me appreciate life and and its abundance in the experiences that I can attain.

Grantley Martelly 38:51

In the middle of the struggle, I can still have joy. Absolutely. In the middle of the struggle, I can still have joy. I think the Bible talks about that.

Hakim Asadi 39:00

I'm sure it's in there.

Grantley Martelly 39:05

So you you you you made the transition then into this this topic we wanted to talk about of building strong supportive communities. Because we all know that this is critical. And one of the things that I mentioned to you before that I admired about you from just a few weeks of of being in that group and and listening to you is that you value and you promote building strong communities, especially for people of color and strong supporting community, not just strong communities, but strong supporting communities. So let's talk about that.

Hakim Asadi 39:41

Yeah, I I've I've again I grew up in church, and I I think that's the the cornerstone of so much of our lives and our experiences is community. I was in a training one time, and this woman she said, we used to have front porch mentalities where the community, we knew each other, we would share uh, you know, recipes, and if you really needed sugar, I had it, you would get it. You know, I grew up where all the kids, we would ride bikes together, we'd ride in the neighborhood and you know, firecrackers and do all the things in the neighborhood. And she said, somewhere along the lines it shifted, and now we have backdoor mentalities where we don't even know our neighbor's name. We just go through the back door into the house. And that struck me because at some point it did shift. And that community, it's not as accessible. I again, you could just go outside, you can play, put your boom box in the in the in the yard and have neighbors come, and you would automatically have a cookout. You didn't need to, you didn't need to send a flyer out, you didn't need to you just have people who wanted to, you know, be in community. And so now that changed. And so we feel more isolated, we feel more alone, we feel more um, some of us, right? We feel more alone, even in this day and age of social media. But the social media

Rebuilding Real Community In Adulthood

Hakim Asadi 41:02

is just sharing of memes and and funny stories and other things, while community seems like it's there, it's on a surface level. And so one of the ways that I tell folks in building community is one, the people you are seeking, they're also seeking you. That requires you to show up, that requires you to be your most authentic self. Because there are people out there who want you in their lives and that you want them in yours. So the people you are seeking, they're also seeking you. That's true when you are seeking community now. That requires a level of transparency and vulnerability and authenticity for you to show up as your true self. Because that's how we form deep and meaningful relationships. And so you want the healthy friends, you don't want the friends everybody serves a purpose, I'll say that. But when I'm when I'm going through something, I want my healthy friends that are gonna be supportive, that's gonna help me process and navigate. I don't want the my my friends or my cousin who's gonna help me burn something down, right? I'll call them afterwards, right? I call them, I'll call them later. But I want the people who are gonna be supportive. And what I found in adulthood is it requires maintenance. Those relationships require maintenance, otherwise, they'll fall by the wayside, they're they'll they're not as um meaningful as you would like because back in the day, you were in the same homeroom or you were in the same church or you were in the same whatever place that fostered that relationship. We're not going to those places anymore. And so, or not as frequently. And so, how do we uh take that step and building community? Because in that, you exchange notes on life, right? Again, you can share, you can heal out loud, and you can have someone say, Me too. Right there, that can be healing by itself. Right? When you're going through, when you're having your ups, you want somebody to celebrate with you. You want to have people that it, you know, again reflect that light back to you in a way that you get to own it, right? You get to show up as as confident with confidence and and security, and that can come from community. Absolutely.

Grantley Martelly 43:21

Yes, yeah. And and one of the things that also came with that front porch mentality and maintaining the relationship is that lots of times you didn't have to make an appointment with that person. Yes. Because they were readily available, sitting on the front porch or by the grocery store, or wherever it was, you knew that you were gonna encounter them, or or whether you knew it or not, there were going to be natural encounters that served to maintain that relationship. That when we went to a backdoor community, now you've got to come from the front door to the back door, which many times mean it's a phone call, or can I talk to you or text to you. So those natural connections have been broken.

Hakim Asadi 44:09

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And and looking at where they exist. Again, I think I mentioned like homeroom and church and things like that, but there is there are places where we go frequently that now it's just a matter of how do I um foster this relationship with intention, right? We still, we still go to the barbershop, we still go to church, we still go to different peer support groups, we still, there's some of us that go to yoga classes. So there are spaces where we come together as a collective and we understand the value in there. And there's something there that it could even be on the surface, but it does something to me. How more, how much better would it be if I create an intentional relationship? Let's go have coffee, let's go and and do something. I don't know, whatever it is that you enjoy, right? How do I, how do I create that space with intention and foster that relationship? Because that's how we build community.

Grantley Martelly 45:05

So, what are some of the current trends that you're seeing in mental and emotional wellness that cause you to be excited that we may be turning the corner on on this, it may be coming more normalized. What are some of the things you're seeing that make you excited?

Hakim Asadi 45:21

Yeah, I I'm seeing um folks talk more and share about their experiences, whether that's online, whether that's um in community or in support groups. I think going to the support group it also gives me hope. You know, it it's like I working with black men, I often say it's Like it's working with my uncles and family and being able to see people not at odds, and being able to see people practice that level of vulnerability and sharing with one another and exchanging of notes on their healing journey, that gives me hope. And it and I think it's very much possible outside of those groups because I think that's how it happens. That's why I say the phrase like healing out loud. I encourage my clients, I encourage the people in the group to continue doing that and talking. But I think for sure, one that's normalizing that vulnerability. And it's helping us change the language. And in the changing the language and in changing how we talk about it, it's changing the course and that tide when it comes to mental and emotional wellness. I think a lot of people here lately, at least I'm seeing it on social media, where it's normal to talk about going to see a therapist. Before that wasn't happening. And so now, if we're able to talk about yes, I'm going to see a therapist, or my therapist taught me this, or my therap, my therapist showed me this, I think that is one of the things that gives me hope and things are changing, for sure.

Grantley Martelly 46:56

You talk about your HIV practice and your prostate cancer and substance abuse.

Hopeful Trends Plus Practical Takeaways

Grantley Martelly 47:06

That when you're doing your therapy, the there are lots of similarities in these groups, no matter what the background thing may be, right? I'm not assuming you have to adjust what you do, whether you're talking to whether you're the HIV community or your prostate cancer community or subject abuse. I'm assuming that there's similarities across all the groups because you're dealing with people. Is that correct?

Hakim Asadi 47:29

Yes, for sure. 100%. Many of the examples that we we talked about today are from all three groups. Um that that transcends groups, that that's something that we as a people um tend to navigate. Now, our health conditions and what we're navigating uh in that way may be particular or or a unique experience, but even that is not that it's not that unique. Health equity is health equity.

Grantley Martelly 48:10

So what are three takeaways or three action steps that you would want listeners to take away from this, whether they're men or women, because we I I I put the women part in there because we know that many women are caretakers and partners of men going through these things. So as you as you frame that in this light of three things that listeners, whether male or female, can take away from this conversation.

Hakim Asadi 48:38

Yeah. You you said three.

Grantley Martelly 48:41

Do as many as you want. Okay.

Hakim Asadi 48:45

Well, the first one, based on this conversation, is um developing a healthy relationship with your emotions, right? Your emotional experiences are are is strength, right? And it's real strength. It's not uh uh a weakness. And so suppressing our emotions is actually not healthy, right? It's it's not connected to power, it's not connected to real control anyway, and all of that is an illusion. And so, how do we not suppress? How do we regulate our emotions? How do we develop a new relationship, a healthy relationship with our emotions? One, two, understanding that healing, healing is more about legacy than anything else. Healing is um, I wanna be whole, not only for myself, but my for my community. I want to be whole when um my nieces and nephew are looking at me and they're seeing me respond to something. I wanna I wanna he I want to practice that healing in a way that's connected to legacy that I'm changing the course for my family. Because we've seen anger and and uh other generational trauma responses, and then we find ourselves having those same responses. Healing is about changing that, right? And third, I'll do I'll give you three. Third is understanding that support is a part of our resilience. Support is a part of our our awakening and and how we move from a place of resilience, not survival.

Grantley Martelly 50:25

What do you see as the difference between resilience and survival?

Hakim Asadi 50:30

I think resilience and survival. I think resilience is a level of consciousness, and it's in our bouncing back that survival there isn't a level of consciousness. There's a level of trauma responses and defense mechanisms, and I'm just trying to get my needs met versus resilience, I think it has the capacity to connect to my healing. And I can do it with a level of purpose and intention versus survival is just like I just I gotta get through the day. I gotta get through this year, I gotta get through, you know.

Grantley Martelly 51:13

Well, thank you.

Hakim Asadi 51:15

Yeah, so my Instagram is Hakeem at Hakim Asadi H A K I M A S A D I underscore. That's my Instagram. You can find me on my website, www.hakeemasidi.com. Uh, I love feedback. I love to connect with folks in even if I'm not your therapist, I think it's so important because access to care is a challenge. How do I serve to help you connect to other someone else? So if you're looking to find a therapist, I can help you find it, um, or I can support you. I don't know if I it works because access to care is still a challenge. But um uh one, how to navigate insurance. Uh, two, how to navigate different directories, what questions to ask? Because I think you always should ask and interview your therapist because your therapist relationship is the key to your it to that journey in particular. So uh yeah, feel free to hit me up and follow me on Instagram.

Grantley Martelly 52:07

Well, thank you very much, and we'll also be uh promoting that in our YouTube page and on our audio pages as well. So thank you, Hakim. I really enjoyed our conversation. Like I said, you were doing therapy during the during the interview, and I really appreciate that. And I appreciate you taking the time to come and talk to us today. Write us at realhealthblackmen at gmail.com. Realhealth blackmen at gmail.com To support this podcast go to buymeacoffee.com forward slash Real Health Blackmen. BuymeiaCoffee.com Real Health Black Men. To become a corporate sponsor, send us an email.